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In this case on the hardness of your water supply, the volume of water being consumed, and the efficiency of your water softener. Can someone explain why, during a regeneration cycle, the time for drawing brine from tank is five times longer than refilling water into tank.
That part of the cycle is drawing all of the water from tank and continues that cycle long after the brine tank is empty. This system was installed and setup by a water softener company who I'm assuming made all necessary tests. My new job is to maintain this system and insure proper operation.
I had a stuck float in the brine tank which was repaired, than I forced a regeneration cycle and noticed the brine tank and cycle setup. Bob, indeed it sounds as if the water softener control or perhaps the brine tank fill control is not working properly. Or maybe not. Some water softeners do not pump water into the brine tank until the start of a regen cycle.
In that case once brine has been drawn out of the tank you won't see water pumped back into the salt tank until the next regen cycle. The water softener regeneration takes place by cycling salty water backwards through the treatment tank and out into a disposal drain, followed by some wash-out of brine from the treatment tank so that the household water is not full of salt.
So the regeneration cycle would be expected to run for the sum of the brine passage plus the flush out water passage - longer than just the time to remove the brine-water from the salt tank. But if the cycle is abnormally long compared to the exhaustion of the brine tank liquid, another possibility is the following: the softener is set to use a particular quantity of salt in the form of brine water based on water hardness and quantity used.
But if the float in the brine tank prevented sufficient water from entering the tank at the start of the regen cycle, then the softener control could find itself blithely pumping along, having exhausted the undersized salt dose but having no way to know that the brine float is a mechanical device that has most often no direct communication with the actual electrically powered softener control.
So I'd make a double check that the un-stuck float in the brine tank is properly set in its height and free in its movement. Water is flowing out of the top of my water softener salt tank. Can you tell me what's wrong and how to fix it? I moved into a new house 3 months ago to find the softener to be "out of service" meaning my inlet outlet valves to softener were closed and bypass open. When I lined softener up I noticed that water was running out of my backwash line this continued for min.
It was not in a regeneration cycle? Josh, I'm guessing you bumped an extra regen cycle switch on the control; But it's just a guess. If the system was put out of service and on bypass it might be because the system was stuck in regeneration mode and needs cleaning or repair. I have a Culligan 50 series softener that is continually draining water.
There is a plastic tube out the top that goes direct to the main house drain and recently we noticed there is a steady stream coming from it. I tried to put in by pass and can't move the spool. That line might leak either when the system is pumping water into the brine tank to make brine, or when the system is in regeneration cycle and is pumping salty water back through the water conditioner.
Take a close look to see exactly what's leaking and replace those parts - it should be an inexpensive "screw-together" repair. The reason for my question is I got a call from the city about our culinary water consumption and it is extremely higher than normal which indicates either a leak in our home such as a toilet, or the water softener is recycling too often.
How do I know how many times the softener is recycling? Jamie, No, if you have a basic softener that just runs the regen cycle by a timer. That sort does not know how salty the regen solution is. Yes, if your softener is a more advanced model that monitors water hardness. If the system keeps running for hours, then the water the water softener control needs repair or replacement.
Above we discussed the duration of water softener regeneration cycles: how long the equipment should run when executing a regeneration cycle. Frequency of water softner regeneration is not the same question as duration of the regeneration cycle.
How do I remove valves to check for obstruction? On a WaterBoss if the unit stays in "regeneration" mode it may or may not be an obstruction. Common causes of being stuck in regen include. The computer control is not properly attached. Be sure that the computer control is pushed all the way up onto the drive end cap. Here you may be right: a foreign object crud may be stuck in the valve body. Look at the parts explosion and see my caveats below when disassembling to check or clean the valve.
Your Water Boss could have a broken valve assembly. If the motor runs and the valve doesn't turn this is probably the problem so I'd look for this condition before disassembling the valve. If you don't already have an owners and installation manual for your Water Boss water softener, contact the company at the location I give below to obtain that document.
That will give you a parts explosion and repair procedures specific to that machine. Meanwhile I'd put the system on bypass and turn it off so you stop wasting water and perhaps flooding a septic system. Watch out : I would NOT disassemble the unit one bit before having repair parts kit in hand. Going to all that trouble and finding that you've nicked or damaged an O-ring can leave you shut down while you have to wait for such parts, and chances are you need them anyway.
Anthony, Most water softeners have a strainer in the bottom of the water softener resin tank. If that's traitor fails such as if parts of it break off from age, it's possible that sand or Roshan beads from the water softener tank would then be pumped out through the water system.
Gold color dust comes out exit pipe after water system backwash Anybody know why gold colored sand is there next day. Bob Let's search InspectApedia. You can download a manual for your water softener to review the Hellenbrand H softener error codes from this link.
My 15 year old Hellenbrand H Starts regen very noisely and 2 hours early, set for 1 AM but starts at It takes 4 hours to complete regen. Error code C-8 displays when cycling thru display. Appears to use salt and soften ok. On by mod - WaterBoss softener error Code E1. It will look for Home again. H0 isn't a code I found in the manual.
Hamilton Rd. Groveport, OH Phone: and do let me know what you're told as that will help other readers. Have Waterboss thats not working properly and show E1s or H0 error.
Unplugged and turned to bypass position while waiting for new parts, continually hear water running through the softner even though there is no water being used insided house. Sound similiar to regen cycle when softener is working properly but then eventually goes silent when finished. The only way to get the water noise to stop is turn off water at the meter, but then there no water available in the house. Terry: The brine rinse cycle of a water softener indeed discharges rather salty water from the system.
However I'm doubtful that the discharge will harm a typical residential sump pump system. There can be a question of impact on a septic system tank and drainfield of salty brine discharge.
When the brine tank flushes, how salty is the water that discharges? Is it too salty to discharge into a sump pump?
Maureen: What you do to stop a water softener regen cycle once it has begun depends on the specific water softer - as the controls will vary - as well as on why you're stopping it. I'll give some examples: Case 1: If there is a leak and water is flooding the area, indeed you want to stop the water softener immediately; in that case turn off the valve that supplies water to the softener right away.
You may also want to turn off power to or un-plug the leaking softener. Now take a closer look at where the leak was occurring: if it's in the softener's drain system or control head, you may be able to restore water to the building by putting the softener into BYPASS mode while you wait for your repair technician.
Don't wait for months as hard water will ultimately cause scale deposits that can damage water heating equipment and clog pipes.
Case 2: you started a regeneration cycle and it's at an inconvenient time or you want to change softener settings: In this case, again varying by type of softener control head electro-mechanical, clock, vs. But watch out: depending on what step in the regeneration process your softener is working when you interrupt it, you may need to at least set the softener to run its final rinse cycle.
For example if the softener was in the middle of the brine backwash cycle and you stop that and then return the softener to service you'll be sending very salty water into the building fixtures unless you finish with a rinse cycle. Take a look at and post a photo of your specific softener's control head and we can perhaps identify the model and refer you to the manual for your machine. NOTE: the first step in many newer models is to -fill- the brine tank, then proceed to brine drawing.
Try power of, wait a few minutes, power on, manual regen; if the problem persists I suspect a bad control board. Alex I think a reasonable place to start is by making sure first that your water softener timer is set to the current hour or time. Initially I thought it is normal after it is been doing that for a while. Then I thought there is some problem so I unplugged the unit, but it keep drainning.
Then I stopped the water. After restarting everything worked fine, but than it started doing it again. Then my wife was using one of the faucets and it stopped. Then I took a shower it stopped again draining. I am confused is there an issue. PS: We bought the house 1 year ago but I started the unit only a week or two ago.
Functionally either step is might or might not be the same, depending on the brand and model of your water softener. Some water softeners do not use any electricity so turning off electrical power is moot: use the bypass valve, Luke.
On a water softener whose control head uses electrical power, when you turn off electrical power or pull the plug to a water softener, water is still passing through the equipment. So, for example, if your water softener is leaky and needs repair, or if you are shutting down the system in order to clean it, you might be better off using the bypass valve to stop water from flowing through the system.
Also see our advice on using the water conditioner bypass valve during winterizing or de-winterizing a water softener when taking steps to protect building plumbing from freezing.
Nor do I - we're missing something. Unless you're seeing the brine tank re-plenished after the initial brine draw. Call product support Let me know what you're told. Don't get why level would be higher then after brine draw. Silly question Fresh water does not normally enter the softener during brine draw. Clarifying the "defninition" of a water softener brine draw cycle: Brine "draw" means The water softener control is drawing or taking salty water brine out of the salt tank brine tank and pushing it through the resin tank.
Manual not very good- I've searched the internet to see if fresh water comes in during brine draw but found nothing so no answer to why my pressure gauge fluctuates. In my system the water comes in prior to the brine draw beginning, where other systems will fill in the latter stage. The manual for your softener lacks detail on the cycle but typically During brine draw brine level drops in the brine tank as brine is sent through the resin tank in the water softener and onwards out the softener drain A subsequent cycle washes excess brine out of the resin tank then in a later cycle, often at the end of the process water is returned to the brine tank.
I did not see an answer as to whether fresh water is being used during the brine draw which causes pressure gauge to change? I'm so sorry for all these messages I just want some closure. Asked if fresh water comes in during the brine draw as well because the pressure gauge to well pump will drop down to 30 psi and go back up to 50 psi and so forth during brine draw? Have you tried starting over, factory reset, then following the diagnostic steps given in the manual as cited earlier?
Have you actually measured the regen drain volume? Have you tested the water after regen to see if it's hard or soft? I'd arm myself with those steps before calling product support o. I pulled the hose from the drain tube while it was in brine mode, water seemed to be coming out fine, not rushing, but then again it's suppose to be a slow trickle so they say, a bit more than a trickle in my opinion though. The rinse and I believe what is called back wash? What's next :. Jamie You insist on being rational.
Keep in mind that no remote diagnosis can be much more than guesswork and a suggestion here and there. Over 50 years of troubleshooting buildings I've found that in virtually every case in which we struggled with some problem and then went to the actual site we always saw something important that we'd missed on remote.
Still the manufacturer's on-phone tech support people have more experience yet with remote diagnosis; it's worth a call. There are no kinks in that or any of the other tubing, been checked. I would imagine since this particular softener has worked for 6 years that everything is properly set up?
How maddening I just posted a long comment with suggestions and the darned "comments box" code snarled up and lost it all. Recapping: Be sure you've checked for some embarrassing snafus like routing the drain hose too high or an obvious kink or leak in tubing anywhere; Then Let's go through the diagnostics in the manual, of which there are 2 sets, starting on p.
I've gone thru the manual numerous times and also did troubleshooting via advice on the internet : It's a WHES 33 whirlpool. So today I took the venturi apart again and cleaned it for the umpteenth time. I've replaced all gaskets on the head, gaskets in the venturi, cleaned the brine tube and probably a ton of things I can't remember Today I actually watched while in brine mode which I assume means the brine is being sucked thru the resin tank and they down the drain hose?
As I said the water is going out the drain hose when softener says its in brine stage. Another question I am on a well and I'm wondering when it says it's in the brine stage and water is what I thought being pulled out and down the drain hose my water pressure guage slowly drops? If softener is not using water during brine stage why is my water pressure being affected. That's why I earllier asked if during the brine draw out the drain hose is fresh water being used too?
Please have patience with me, I hope you will stick with me to the end. Jamie: "when the unit is brining" - not sure which step you're referring to in a softener regen cycle. If you're referring to the liquid or brine level, it should recede by the volume of brine that is in turn determined by the salt dose setting on the softener's control head. We might make some progress if we start with the brand and model of your water softener. They're not all identical across all models and brands.
Then we can actually watch the softener as it steps through its cycles and at the "brine draw" cycle we can see what's happening. We can also test the water hardness before and after a softener regen cycle to determine if it's actually softening the water.
And though it's probably not necessary we could also sample the softener's drainage water during each cycle step; The initial rinse is not salty The brine cycle should be salty The final rinse should be diminishing in saltiness over that cycle's time interval The output of the softener after all cycles are complete should be low in salt.
On by jamie -. So I'm asking this old question again Yet the level in brine tank does not recede? Don't get it unless the water going out the drain hose is a combination of brine and regular water going out? In other words, is the water going out the drain during brine mode consist of only water water being sucked out of my tank?
I gave up on troubleshooting as I have done everything written to fix this softener lol. But this hard water is just killing my skin I'm going to try and tackle this sob again. And if you're not handy I don't advise disassembling the valve; unless there are appropriate shutoffs and other means to bypass all of that piping you could find a terrible leak and end up having to turn off your entire water system to wait for a plumber.
A leak is a different problem from a water softener that's not softening the water - though of course if you're stuck in bypass mode the output won't be softened. No it's not normal. Look closely to see exactly where the leak is occurring so the weekend figure out what repair is needed to stop it. When I put my water softener in bypass a mist of water sprays out for a second.
Is that normal? Still trying to fix this Whirlpool softener for the last 6 months! Have done everything imaginable no soft water. On by mod - no soft water and it was because of the bad O rings on the Bipass valve. With the exception of a subtle and unlikely condition, the O-rings you replaced should not have caused excessive water usage. After all it's opening cops or running Plumbing fixtures in the building that uses more or less water.
The subtle exception might be that for some models of water softener if the unit is not operating correctly it might have been regenerated more frequently than necessary. That would use additional water. And of course if I hate water softener is stuck in regeneration mode it could run continuously.
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